jinn
Baby Panzer
Posts: 9
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Post by jinn on Jul 28, 2016 18:52:00 GMT 1
Hi everyone,
There seems to be a lot of veteran players of Panzer/MBT here.
Personally, I just got into wargaming six months ago starting with Twilight Struggle and Paths of Glory
(And very recently, Cuba Libre in the COIN series).
I play a lot on VASSAL via PBEM.
To date, I have still yet to play a true hex-and-counter tactical game.
I saw an unboxing video of MBT yesterday and was instantly blown away.
I quickly downloaded the rules off GMT and skimmed through them.
I love the complexity. In fact, rules exceptions slash chrome is one of my favorite features of PoG.
So here's my question to you all:
I'm thinking about purchasing either Panzer or MBT.
If you had to choose though, what would it be?
Is there a good discussion of the pros/cons of each somewhere online?
I'm personally leaning towards MBT because I want a more modern game with more equipment.
But I'd to hear from people who've been playing these games longer.
Thanks!
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Post by Tony37 on Jul 28, 2016 19:06:24 GMT 1
They both use the same system, MBT adds modern weapons and equipment and rules that go along with those systems.
You already read the MBT rules so go ahead and download the Panzer rules too and give them a look. Make sure you are looking at Advanced Rules for both games.
So...if, you can only buy one then it's nothing but a matter of your personal preference for time period (and any expansions that can spring from the base games).
Pros and Cons. For me there aren't any, I don't think like that.
You might see some guys talking about "MBT has helicopters..." or "Panzer has a ton of different vehicles..."
But that's all their own personal preference and really not a Pro/Con for either game, the system is the same.
(some guys love those German "big cat" WW2 tanks... some want to prove their Soviet T's can defeat the M1A1 Abrams....)
look at the rules, look at all the vehicles and weapons available and make a choice based on which you think you'll personally have the most fun.
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Post by Gustav6 on Jul 29, 2016 7:43:15 GMT 1
You are lucky, as both games are now available. They both share the same system and once you know how to play one of them, you can play the other (with the obvious differences related to modern weapons such as ATGMs, Helicopters, etc.) If you like the system and you only want to purchase one game, then it is a fact of time period preference. Do you like more WW2 or Modern Warfare? If you like both time periods you could consider purchasing both. I know it is a lot of money in one go, but I'm sure you'll enjoy both games. And this way you could even mix them to create DYO scenarios mixing maps and units. Check this review I've done of Panzer for more details. It is useful for both systems. |
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jinn
Baby Panzer
Posts: 9
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Post by jinn on Jul 29, 2016 18:23:05 GMT 1
Thank you for your thoughtful responses, both of you. Really appreciate them.
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Post by WildBoarD20 on Aug 3, 2016 8:49:37 GMT 1
Buy both you can't go wrong!
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jinn
Baby Panzer
Posts: 9
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Post by jinn on Aug 4, 2016 2:42:23 GMT 1
I'm sure you're right WildBoarD20... but I'd like to sow my seeds far and wide in the war gaming world right now and dip my toes in a bit of each... if you know what I mean.
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Post by CPTNCC1701D on Sept 8, 2016 21:48:30 GMT 1
If the historical period isn't enough of a determining factor then consider this ... MBT uses geomorphic maps! This allows for a greater combination of terrain then a static map like the one found in Panzer.
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Post by Gustav6 on Sept 8, 2016 21:58:50 GMT 1
If the historical period isn't enough of a determining factor then consider this ... MBT uses geomorphic maps! This allows for a greater combination of terrain then a static map like the one found in Panzer. And if you go after the Panzer Expansions then you will not only have geomorphic maps, but the entire OOB of German and Soviet vehicles in your arsenal. A tough decision. |
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Post by cptncc1701d on Sept 9, 2016 0:54:01 GMT 1
After all this talk I decided to order MBT for myself. Hopefully the wargame will arrive early next week. My local store brought in 4 copies this morning and I purchased Number 3 so I guess the game is popular.
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jinn
Baby Panzer
Posts: 9
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Post by jinn on Sept 9, 2016 4:16:30 GMT 1
If the historical period isn't enough of a determining factor then consider this ... MBT uses geomorphic maps! This allows for a greater combination of terrain then a static map like the one found in Panzer. I went with MBT and it's shipping to me next week as we speak. Time period become my reason for doing it. I posted this on reddit: Yeah, I'm going with MBT. I went into this wanting to go for MBT waiting for people tell me what the differences were . (Aside from the time period and the equipment). I was hoping maybe they'd tell me Panzer has more players, more expansion, better mechanics or something. With mechanics, it looks like Jim Day consolidated both series into the same system. /u/rrl here and Gustav6 and Tony37 at Panzer Pusher Forum all told me the systems are essentially the same. I took their advice to review both basic rule books and the first few, if not several, pages of both systems have more-or-less the same wording. It's only in the advanced rule book that you get into the weeds and differences really start to pop. With players, I was a little worried that there wasn't a VASSAL module for the new MBT. Like every other wargamer out there, (even though I'm only six months in), I have a shelf full of games I never touch, but play them quite a bit on VASSAL. So I emailed Rob Doane who created the Panzer VASSAL module to see if he was going to do MBT too, but got a faster response when Gustav6/Fernando Sola told me they'd be releasing it later. (The play testers, him included, have had access to it since mid-2015). Finally, I was worried that Panzer has like three expansions out already. But /u/rrl also pointed out that BAOR and FRG are both expansions on the p500 already and are just 15-27 copies shy of hitting the goal. (British vs. Warsaw pact?! Are you freakin' kidding me? Hell yes I'm in). So it really came down to if you like WW2 or modern vehicles and tanks more. And I like WW2. But I already have Breakout: Normany on order from L2, No Retreat: The Russian Front on P500 and I'm eyeing Simonitch's Normandy '44 too. Do I really need another WW2 game right now? Maybe I'll pick up Panzer later. But right now, I want to play with ATGMs, Grenade Launchers, MANPADs, helicopters and SAMs in addition to the mortars, HMGs and HEATs found in Panzer. I think you get more interesting aircraft in MBT too. |
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Post by cptncc1701d on Sept 9, 2016 14:00:51 GMT 1
Well done Jinn!
I am a big fan of the Harold Coyle novel Team Yankee and MBT will allow me to recreate some of the epic battles from the book.
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Post by Gustav6 on Sept 9, 2016 19:22:00 GMT 1
Jinn, I'm very happy you finally made a decision. I'm sure you'll enjoy this fantastic game, either playing the included scenarios, or maybe creating and sharing them.
Congratulations.
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dave
Baby Panzer
Posts: 1 
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Post by dave on Sept 19, 2016 23:11:03 GMT 1
I p500ed MBT on a whim and I'm really glad I did. It's turned out to be the wargame I really wanted that I didn't realize I really wanted. Once I got it sorted out and onto the table I was hooked. Don't own Panzer yet however, might have to do something about that  It's a huge game and the Playbook is fantastic! It solos back and forth well imo (thanks to how the command counters and initiative system works). My only problem with MBT is that I'm juggling two jobs at once so I'm super busy/tired lately... It's a "wide" and somewhat complex sandbox wargame that's going to take many moons for me to fully grok, but I'm looking forward to it. |
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jinn
Baby Panzer
Posts: 9
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Post by jinn on Sept 20, 2016 0:11:15 GMT 1
Well done Jinn! I am a big fan of the Harold Coyle novel Team Yankee and MBT will allow me to recreate some of the epic battles from the book. Oh. That's cool. I'm going to have to pick up a copy of that. I'm making a list of books in this 1987 alternate world right now. So far, (including yours), I have: Red Storm Rising - Tom Clancy Red Army - Ralph Peters Armor at Fulda Gap: A Visual Novel of the War of Tomorrow - John L. Cook Team Yankee - Harold Coyle The Third World War: The Untold Story - Sir John Hackett Anything else I should add to enrich my MBT experience? |
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jinn
Baby Panzer
Posts: 9
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Post by jinn on Sept 20, 2016 0:18:30 GMT 1
Jinn, I'm very happy you finally made a decision. I'm sure you'll enjoy this fantastic game, either playing the included scenarios, or maybe creating and sharing them. Congratulations. Thanks Fernando! I just got done reading the basic rules and have scenario 1 set up and ready to play with a friend. I also sorted out all my counters into baggies (the 8 puny ones they provided were absolutely inadequate for the job...) Unfortunately/fortunately, I'm going on a two week family vacation (humble brag). So I won't be firing my tanks until I get back in early October. |
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